Sacred Cows make great Hamburger. In America today, the .308 Winchester cartridge enjoys the position of being a Sacred Cow. It’s venerated for its power, praised for its effective range, and glorified for its military service.
But I don’t like it one bit.
In fact, the 308 is one of my least favorite cartridges.
Give me a few minutes, and I’ll explain why the Military KNEW the .308 was NOT a good cartridge when they adopted it.
Let’s fire up that grill and make some sacred Hamburgers.
To fully understand why the 308 sucks, lets take a short trip down history lane. After WWI, the US military looked at the .30-06 cartridge used in the 1903 Springfield and thought
“Wow, that’s too much gun.”
They wanted something that was effective in Close Quarters Combat (CQC) and out to around 500-600 yards. The 30-06 was too heavy and had too much recoil to fit the bill.
So in the 1920s and early 1930s, they spent millions of dollars developing a suitable cartridge. Keep in mind, this was so important that the military spent these millions during the height of the depression.
The military decided it should be between 6.5mm & 7mm in diameter, and should weigh no more than 120-130 grains. (BTW: the .308 military loading is a 147 grain 7.62mm bullet at 2800 fps)
They designed the cartridge and called it the .276 Pedersen. It fired a 125gr 7mm bullet at roughly 2700fps. (Wikipedia’s .275 Pedersen Article got this stat wrong)
The Army’s chief of staff single-handedly overturned the decision to change cartridges. He decided we should stick with the 30-06 and ordered the M1 Garand be built in 30-06. (It was originally designed for the .276 Pedersen)
That wasted millions of R&D dollars and gave our troops a cartridge known to be over-powered.
Oh well.
So then after WWII the military looked at the 30-06 and thought:
“Wow, that’s too much gun”
Imagine that.
Anyway, they set about designing a new cartridge and ended up with the .308 Winchester. Here’s the Problem:
- The 30-06 fired a 150 grain bullet at 2800 fps (M2 Ball ammo)
- The .308 fired a 147 grain bullet at 2800 fps (M80 Ball ammo)
3 grains lighter, exact same velocity!!!
Are you Kidding me!!!
So we get into the Vietnam Conflict and it doesn’t take long before the Military looks at the 308 and thinks:
“Wow, that’s too much gun”
Duh!
The British tried talking some sense into us. They designed the .280 British (140 grain bullet at 2550 fps) that had WAY less recoil and a similar effective range. Did we listen?
Nope.
If we didn’t listen when our own R&D, why would we listen to theirs?
So why does the .308 suck? Maybe because we have almost 100 years of experience and 2 World Wars that says it does. (or says bullets that size and velocity suck anyway)
But…
But…
But…
What about all it’s wonderful attributes that people love so much? I’m glad you asked. I have a confession, it’s not .308 that I dislike so much – I don’t like ANY 30 caliber bullets.
ANY of them. (except maybe the .300 blackout with 220gr+subsonic bullets. That’s pretty cool)
.30 caliber bullets are just too fat to be aerodynamic. There’s a reason the military concluded that our bullets shouldn’t be bigger than 7mm.
They get too fat. (full explanation in my article about Sectional Density, Short version below)
- Fat bullets are less aerodynamic = less effective at long range.
- Slim bullet are more aerodynamic = more effective at long range.
Example: The .308 M80 Ball (147 grain bullet @ 2800) slows to about 1320 fps at 800 yards. It’s still considered lethal at 800 yards.
So lets say that any 147 grain bullet at 1320 fps is lethal. (If you disagree, you’re welcome to stand in front of one. No takers? I thought so)
If we take a 147 grain 7mm bullet at the same velocity (and same aerodynamic form factor), it would slow to around 1530 fps at 800 yards.
That’s over 200 FPS difference…
Starting at the same velocity!
(Plus, the wind wouldn’t push the bullet around so much)
Lets go even further. The military said a bullet as small as 6.5mm would be lethal. a 147 grain 6.5mm bullet is VERY aerodynamic because it’s so slim and needle-like.
A 147 grain 6.5mm bullet at 2800 fps would slow to around 1650 fps at 800 yards. That’s almost 350 fps faster starting at the same velocity!
So to achieve our “lethal” (according to the military) velocity of 1320 fps with a 147 grain bullet, here’s what velocity our three calibers need to start at: (approximate)
- .308 needs 2800 fps Starting velocity to reach 1320 at 800 Yards
- 7mm needs 2510 fps Starting velocity to reach 1320 at 800 Yards
- 6.5mm needs 2370 fps Starting velocity to reach 1320 at 800 Yards
You don’t need 2800 fps velocity to be lethal at 800 yards. You need a more aerodynamic bullet.
This goes double so because of the recoil factor. The .308 has 25% more recoil than the 7mm bullet above, and 35% more recoil than the 6.5 mm bullet.
Lower recoil = more effective at Close Quarters Combat because you can have faster aimed follow-up shots.
Lower velocity = lower recoil (assuming the same bullet weight)
The British figured this out and wanted NATO to adopt their .280 British cartridge instead of the .308. It fired a 140 grain 7mm bullet at about 2550 fps. Hmm, does that sound familiar? (if not, you need to go back up several lines)
They got it.
We blew it.
Unfortunately for our soldiers, the US had more influence in NATO. So the US convinced NATO to choose the .308 over the FAR better performing .280 British. That’s politics for you.
Our troops were given an inferior cartridge because America’s love affair with .30 caliber bullets outweighed Millions of dollars in R&D by two different countries.
So that’s the sad, sordid history of the .308. It was chosen over a FAR better competitor due to politics.
Yes it’s still lethal at 800 yards and will put targets down with authority. But because of it’s big, fat bullets it needs much more velocity (read: “recoil”) to do it.
The military around the world needs to adopt the 6.5 Grendel! Does everything that a military round needs to get done.
The Grendel would certainly be a step in the right direction. I actually have a pet cartridge I like better though. Let me know what you think. General Purpose Combat Cartridge Revisited
243 winchester would be good too.
Easy on logistics for the military
I agree that the 243 has everything you need performance wise. The only downside is barrel life, which is why I like a slightly small 6mm cartridge. But yeah, I do like the 243.
What were the British .280 AP capabilities compared to the .308?
I believe the .280 British would beat out the 308 because of it’s higher Sectional Density despite the 308 coming out faster. That’s assuming identically constructed bullets of course.
There’s a table on the 280 British Wikipedia Page that shows it beat out out a .303 British in penetration. The muzzle velocity numbers are very similar to a 308, so I stand by the .280 British would be better for penetration.
You are a gnat hair splitting ****** [Profanity deleted by admin]. Typical gunshop monkey
In a combat situation the .308( and 30-06) kicks the shit out of most of the calibers you have listed.
If you dont like a .308 is because you have not actually USED one enough to realize how well they work.
I don’t deny the .308 (and 30-06) has been putting people in body bags for a long time. But that doesn’t make it a good cartridge.
If you will do some research, you will find that virtually every study conducted by the military has concluded that the 308 has too much recoil to be an effective close quarters cartridge. Because of the very poor aerodynamics of the bullet, it also makes a poor long-range cartridge. If you disagree about the aerodynamics, please read “What’s wrong with 30 caliber” by Byan Litz. (a Bigwig at Berger bullets)
On a more technical note, the 308 lacks enough space for a properly aerodynamic ogive. Because of that, it’s absolutely limited to bullets with relatively blunt noses so it can’t be very aerodynamic.
Also, no profanity or name calling in the comments unless you want your comment deleted and your email and/or IP address banned.
What’s Right About 6.5/7mm
Glad to see that this subject matter is still in active discussion. There has been a lot of discussion over almost the last 100 years about what is the ideal cartridge and the answer has been found many times and it is always nearly the same: 6.5mm to 7mm at velocities in the mid 2000s fps.
Over the last 250 or so years there has been trend of higher velocities and smaller bores. Much of that trend was due improvements in industrial manufacturing allowing more complicated repeating guns, metallic cartridges to be developed. Smaller calibers were made possible by better machine tools and allowed gun manufacturers to offer new cartridges for civilian use that cost less and reduced recoil while still putting meat on the table. The US military was resistant to these changes and only reluctantly did so after seeing foreign governments adopt smaller, faster calibers.
The same reluctance played out before WWII, the 276 Pedersen vs the 30-06, and again after WWII, 280 British vs T65. Only the 5.56 NATO bucked the trend, in which the military decided that suppressive fire and mythical buzz saw bullets were the desirable than bullet power. The 5.56s short comings at longer range were evident early on with the military repeatedly reaching for the back into the inventory for 30-06 Springfields and Winchesters and 308 M-14s and Remingtons for the last 50 years.
The holy grail of the general purpose cartridge has been identified repeatedly and variations have been developed. They all have similar characteristics: bullets in the 120 to 140 grain weight range, velocities in the 2400 to 2800 fps range, improved ballistic coefficients for better performance at longer ranges. Cartridges with these characteristics offer greater mass and range than the 5.56 and less recoil and better accuracy than the 7.62.
There is a long list of candidate cartridges that can be researched. Some are match cartridges, developed for reduced recoil but improved accuracy. Some are tax payer funded, military development cartridges. Some of these cartridges even have been successfully field tested in both hunting and military applications and their performance is well established.
Two things are need if the military is to ever adopt an improved general purpose cartridge: 1) a fire arm designed to accept a cartridge length between 2.5” and 2.6” and a case head diameter between .422” and .472”, 2) the political will to make the change after 50 years.
Great minds think alike. I believe you would enjoy my General Purpose Combat Cartridge and General Purpose Combat Cartridge Revisited Articles.
Again Abe,great article and observations.Both US and Soviets looked at 6.5 mm
after WWII nut neither dared to pull the trigger.308 bullets used in 7.62 simply
lack the ballistics.147 gr M80 ball has bc around 370-390 which is only good
for 600 yards.Decent bullets in 30 cal. start around 170 grains.
Please notice,is it only my observation that in most American designed cartridges
you got a lot of powder and very little bullet(short and light for caliber)
Just think,how many people shoot 7 mag with 175 grain bullets? Very few.
I shoot them all day long in my 7×57 in full power loads,no problem recoil is
very mild.Other cartridges are handicapped by short action length and severe
bullet setback like .260 or 7-08 to name couple or long cases and not enough
space left in magazine for longer higher bc bullets.
Very few people shoot .308 with bullets that can really perform.